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### How can a translational change affect structure?

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:46 am
I've been spending a lot of thought time on Schauberger's spiral/vortex basis, regarding both implosion energies, and as it relates to living water.
Something I have not found any satisfactory model for, is how a translational movement through space can affect the structure of an aggregate.

One of the compendiums on his work details how an inward spiral vortex causes the water/air to cool to the "anomaly point".
That an inward motion causes something to cool makes sense to me, since heat is a moment/vibration, a motion from the larger to the smaller is basically "unmotion", the reverse of heat.
However when I take a mental step back, I do not see why an individual motion in a collection of aggregates should be affected, only the aggregate as a whole should since it's change is relative to itself.

### Re: How can a translational change affect structure?

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:35 pm
SoverT wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:46 am
Something I have not found any satisfactory model for, is how a translational movement through space can affect the structure of an aggregate.
Space and time are always connected as motion. Any translation of space is inversely related to rotation in time.

All ratios of motion consist of one aspect of space and the other of time, and one aspect of translation (linear velocity) and one aspect of rotation (angular velocity). Like yin-yang, they never operate independently in Nature. Different story in the lab and with math, as we can only observe changes in space in the lab (not changes in time), and math is an artificial reality that can do anything it wants.
SoverT wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:46 am
One of the compendiums on his work details how an inward spiral vortex causes the water/air to cool to the "anomaly point".
Two assumptions are involved here: first, is that he is talking about living water, which will contain an "antimatter" component, such as antihydrogen hydroxide (H-OH). Second is that it is a vortex structure, which contains BOTH a translational and rotational component, where one or both of the components are accelerating (a constant velocity in both radial and circumferential components give you a spring-like coil). (Might want to think about the conventional, electronic induction "coil" and Tesla's conic and pancake "vortex" coils.)
SoverT wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:46 am
That an inward motion causes something to cool makes sense to me, since heat is a moment/vibration, a motion from the larger to the smaller is basically "unmotion", the reverse of heat.
However when I take a mental step back, I do not see why an individual motion in a collection of aggregates should be affected, only the aggregate as a whole should since it's change is relative to itself.
Consider what "heat" is, in the Reciprocal System: a low-speed vibration in the time region, that reduces a portion of the dimensional, inward motion (gravitation or attraction) between atoms (see the Liquid State papers for details). Considering Nehru's sunspot research, there are three ways to cool:
1. Remove heat by reducing the magnitude of thermal vibration in the time region.
2. Increase heat into the 2nd dimension, to move to the inverse states of matter (the more energy, the colder it gets). Note that this method will produce significant magnetic effects.
3. Increase cold by introducing a vibration into the space region.
The thermal motion in an aggregate is controlled by the thermal ionization level. Larson uses this, along with the electric and magnetic ionization levels), but never goes in to the actual mechanism of how this effect works. Ionization is probably better discussed as a separate topic, as I've only recently figured it out, but to put it simply, ionization is coherence, like a laser beam versus a flashlight beam. It is just done with different dimensional structures.

Heat is a vibration. Consider a room full of tuning forks, then play a note on an instrument in that room that is the same frequency as the forks. What happens? All the forks "sing" at the same time--coherence. This is why thermal motion is distributed across an aggregate, like the furnace and all the objects in the room.

If you understand these principles, then you should be able to understand how a vortex implosion system works--and remember, implosion in space = explosion in time.

### Re: How can a translational change affect structure?

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:23 am
bperet wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:35 pm

Two assumptions are involved here: first, is that he is talking about living water, which will contain an "antimatter" component, such as antihydrogen hydroxide (H-OH). Second is that it is a vortex structure, which contains BOTH a translational and rotational component, where one or both of the components are accelerating (a constant velocity in both radial and circumferential components give you a spring-like coil). (Might want to think about the conventional, electronic induction "coil" and Tesla's conic and pancake "vortex" coils.)
In this particular case the water is of the inanimate variety; the vacuum-via-cooling works on regular H2O. The transition to living water seems to be a side effect of the actual implosion, when implemented (a final kick over the boundary).

The implosion does not appear necessary for the basic energy production mechanism of the cooling>vacuum>suction process.
A piece of the puzzle I only recently learned was that the density of water changes at the temperature of 4C. This is likely the "point of anomaly" that he refers to.

With reference to the acceleration, I don't understand why an acceleration would have a different effect from a rotation. The only thing that comes to mind is that acceleration implies increased momentum, but in the case of a single water molecule that seems ludicrously small.
If considered in context of a spatial vibration, a rapid rotational motion should be as effective as a rapid but accelerating rotational motion

### Re: How can a translational change affect structure?

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:59 am
SoverT wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:23 am
A piece of the puzzle I only recently learned was that the density of water changes at the temperature of 4C. This is likely the "point of anomaly" that he refers to.
Yes, it is. It is the point of maximum density and minimum volume. Heat or cool it further, and water will expand. That behavior indicates it is at the peak of the pyramid... a resonant point between two curves, much like an LC circuit.
SoverT wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:23 am
With reference to the acceleration, I don't understand why an acceleration would have a different effect from a rotation. The only thing that comes to mind is that acceleration implies increased momentum, but in the case of a single water molecule that seems ludicrously small.
Rotation and translation are primary motions; they can exist by themselves. Accelerated motion is secondary, arising from a compounding of primary motions. Nature does not like imbalance, so anything that is "accelerated" has a piece of it that can be transferred to another motion to get back to the primaries.
SoverT wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:23 am
If considered in context of a spatial vibration, a rapid rotational motion should be as effective as a rapid but accelerating rotational motion
No, as a rotational motion is not compound, so it cannot transfer motion to another component--that an accelerated rotation (vortex) could.

Nature is about balance... all the turbulence that occurs is a compensation for putting things back into balance. The yang aspect increases turbulence, the yin reduces it. If we apply that principle to the RS, then we find that linear motion increases entropy, and angular motion (spin) reduces it.

### Re: How can a translational change affect structure?

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:08 am
bperet wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:59 am
Rotation and translation are primary motions; they can exist by themselves. Accelerated motion is secondary, arising from a compounding of primary motions.
Agreed, but only for individual aggregates. Place a marble on your kitchen table and move it in a circle with your hand. Clearly a rotational motion, so why doesn't it keep moving in a circle on your table forever, since rotation is primary?
Because it's movement, not motion. This is the issue I have with understanding how translational movement converts to motion.
The marbles of water are merely being translated around a vortex shaped kitchen table with a more invisible hand. Why should this alter the internal structure of the individual molecules/atoms?

The only mechanism I can think of right now is that the "screw within a screw" motion does slowly cause the individual molecules to rotate faster around their own axes. I assume it would have to reach a speed threshold due to discrete units, then it would flip one of the dimensions from one side to the other.
I haven't quite worked out how the discontinuous bend in the vortex works, but I assume it provides some sort of additional "kick" from one speed to another that bumps it over the speed limit

### Schauberger cycloid spiral analysis

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:00 am
SoverT wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:08 am
Clearly a rotational motion, so why doesn't it keep moving in a circle on your table forever, since rotation is primary?
Because it's movement, not motion. This is the issue I have with understanding how translational movement converts to motion.
First, that is not rotation, it is translation in 2 dimensions. You push right and up, keep repeating, and it looks like it is going in a circle. That is why I try to avoid "rotation" and use "angular velocity" or "spin." It is angular velocity that is primary, a marble spinning on its axis.

You may be conceptualizing it backwards. Translation arises out of compensation, when scalar pushes and pulls are not in balance. It is Nature trying to restore balance. Translation (and geometric rotation) are not primary--they are secondary. They don't exist on their own, which is why you can delete all the coordinate data in a computer simulation, when progressing the system, then recreate it.
SoverT wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:08 am
The marbles of water are merely being translated around a vortex shaped kitchen table with a more invisible hand. Why should this alter the internal structure of the individual molecules/atoms?
As compensation for an imbalance. The conditions set up inside a cycloid spiral (using Viktor Schauberger's references) require compensation by increasing pressure... the problem being that in order to increase pressure one must either decrease volume or increase temperature (by conventional thought, PV=nRT). Water is already at its maximum density, 4℃, so it cannot become more dense, and any change in temperature would decrease pressure. Chemistry then runs out of options, but Nature does not... there is one other way to increase pressure, through conjugation--make a material atom a cosmic one, so the "mass" becomes its reciprocal--super heavy (for example, 1/10 becomes 10/1). The simple way to do this is to flip the proton rotation of M 1-1-(1) to C (1)-(1)-1, causing a molecular implosion and converting inanimate water into H-OH, living water. The density of the water molecules goes up, the pressure goes up, and balance is restored. And with the increased density, you can float rocks on it.

### Re: Schauberger cycloid spiral analysis

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:17 am
bperet wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:00 am
The conditions set up inside a cycloid spiral (using Viktor Schauberger's references) require compensation by increasing pressure... the problem being that in order to increase pressure one must either decrease volume or increase temperature (by conventional thought, PV=nRT). Water is already at its maximum density, 4℃, so it cannot become more dense, and any change in temperature would decrease pressure.
Ah, I was mislead by the (mis) interpretation in the writings I have. The book I have indicates that the vortex motion takes warm water and cools it, and the cooling causes contraction and a consequent vacuum suction. Seemed plausible so I assumed it was correct.

Do you know where to find some direct translations of Schauberger?
Google is so packed with new age ofuscation I haven't had much luck finding his uncontaminated works.

### Re: Schauberger cycloid spiral analysis

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:56 am
SoverT wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:17 am
Ah, I was mislead by the (mis) interpretation in the writings I have. The book I have indicates that the vortex motion takes warm water and cools it, and the cooling causes contraction and a consequent vacuum suction. Seemed plausible so I assumed it was correct.
Just examine his log flume designs. He had mechanism to remove warm water and introduce fresh, ice-cold water from mountain streams (clean, living water from snow caps) all the way down the route. Had to maintain that maximum density point.
SoverT wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:17 am
Do you know where to find some direct translations of Schauberger?
Google is so packed with new age ofuscation I haven't had much luck finding his uncontaminated works.
Living Water was the first book I read. The only actual text (English translation) I have that was written by Schauberger is "Our Senseless Toil," which gives a feel of how the man thought. PDF attached.

### Re: Schauberger cycloid spiral analysis

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:21 am
bperet wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:56 am
SoverT wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:17 am
Ah, I was mislead by the (mis) interpretation in the writings I have. The book I have indicates that the vortex motion takes warm water and cools it, and the cooling causes contraction and a consequent vacuum suction. Seemed plausible so I assumed it was correct.
Just examine his log flume designs. He had mechanism to remove warm water and introduce fresh, ice-cold water from mountain streams (clean, living water from snow caps) all the way down the route. Had to maintain that maximum density point.
SoverT wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:17 am
Do you know where to find some direct translations of Schauberger?
Google is so packed with new age ofuscation I haven't had much luck finding his uncontaminated works.
Living Water was the first book I read. The only actual text (English translation) I have that was written by Schauberger is "Our Senseless Toil," which gives a feel of how the man thought. PDF attached.
A good read. Close in tone and content to the writings I have, so my understanding is less distorted than I was afraid of.

He mentions the same effect though, on p.27.
The reason for this is as follows: as they accelerate, centrally-conducted water-masses are simultaneously cooled, with the result that gases evolving from the carbones become concentrated in the flow-axis, where the lowest temperatures reside.
Looking at the shape and structure of what he is describing is fascinating, in that it is simply outlining particular effective methods of motion complexification.

A few things that are not evident from the text:
* What amount of duration/distance is necessary for water to achieve maturity as he describes it? It seems to me that it would be a statistical relationship between the size of the pipe and the flow rate. In terms of a recycling setup, it should be calculable how many iterations it would takes to fully mature a quantity of water.

* Does the maximum maturity of water actually cease at the point he understands, or is that simply the end of the conventional measurability, and the maturity can continue into biological/ethical dimensionalities/density.

* I don't really understand his described interaction/relationship of oxygen type/quantity/quality/interaction. I need to spend more thought in this area.

* Does the chirality of the helical motion matter? Or do both left and right hand motions suffice?

It occurs to me that a large scale piping as he describes could be a very effective transportation propulsion mechanism. Much more stable and cheaper than the magnetic suspension tubes proposed by Elon Musk.

### Re: How can a translational change affect structure?

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:53 am