Time

Discussion concerning other (non-RS) systems of theory and the insights obtained from them, as applied to the developing RS2 theory.
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Vuyiswa
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:56 pm

Time

Post by Vuyiswa »

Hi all,

Now I am just curious about TIME and understanding it better. For a non-mathematician, this has to be a musical journey as in the spirit of Starlight.

This from an llresearch.org channelling wayback in "time" (1974) but seemingly apropos for this discussion. I will need to read this channelling another 1 to 10

times to get a better picture. In the mean time, for your consideration. I haven't got the words to express my understanding as yet. Perhaps Time will tell me later - I hope so, as my brain hurts at present !:)

Hatonn wrote:

I am aware of your problem. It is an understanding of time. I will attempt to instruct you as to the nature of time. It is not very simple to you, I am sure, but it is very simple to us. simply because we are aware of time in a different way than you are aware of time.

Time, my friends, is in your mind. There is only now, and there is only here. The reason that there appears to be a reciprocal nature between space and time in your world is because your world is, shall we say, designed to produce this illusion. It is an illusion necessary for certain catalytic actions that you enjoy in your present state for the purpose of your continued spiritual growth and evolution.

Time, however, is totally independent of space, and space is totally independent of time, for in truth they have no relationship—for in truth neither has meaning. There is one place, and there is one time. Therefore, there is no interdependent relationship between the two.

I am going to at this time, if you will excuse the pun, call on another to speak to you, for it may be of some help to hear his words, as they will be somewhat less simple and therefore more time-consuming. I am sorry to be, shall we say, in a joking mood this evening, but I am afraid I find the subject somewhat of a humorous one.

I will leave you at this time. Adonai.
(Pause)

Oxal wrote:

I am Oxal. I am with this instrument. I have been called for the purpose of speaking to you on the nature and reality of time. Time is a field, like unto your electric field, your magnetic field. But what is a field, my friends? A field is an effect. A field is in your minds. A field has different effects at different distances. So does time. As you have recently stated, time and space are dependent, one upon another. It has also been stated that they are totally independent, and have no relationship.

Both of these statements are true. It simply depends on your point of view. The people of your planet at present do not appreciate the number of dimensions that are available for one to experience the creation. All of these dimensions are made up of a single place and a single time, and, for that matter, a single dimension, which has no dimension. But it is necessary to go from where you are to where you will be. Therefore, we shall speak of time as you know it and try to lead you to that place where you will know it.

Time is a field. It is space-dependent. Space is a field and is time-dependent. For this reason you recognize a reciprocal nature. The relationship between the two is the third power [of] displacement in either. This may be recognized by a simple equation or formula. T3 divided by 3 is equal to S3. S3 divided by 3 is equal to T.

There are three dimensions: therefore, the numeral “3” is used, both as a power and as a constant. Permeability of the field is dependent upon the speed of the reciprocal field. Your present constant, that which you call the velocity of light, is the basic speed of the field. The permeability of that which you know as matter is dependent upon this constant. In other words, my friends, the densities of which your world is composed, and the densities of the other planes of existence as you know them, are time-dependent. Their permeability is a function of apparent speed.

Condensation in dense form results from oscillations between reciprocally related space/time entities and permeability, or the basic density of this material, is a function of the apparent velocity of what you call light. There are six spaces and six times in each density. In your present form and state of awareness you recognize three. The other three you travel in in the state of sleep. In doing this. you become, quite often, mismatched with your awareness you possess in your waking state. For this reason you are able to perceive events that will occur in what is to you in the waking state the future. However, the future is an illusion, as is the past, for there is only the present. It is possible to slide, shall we say, along with respect to your awareness of time in the waking state simply by removing through the process of normal sleep the confines of the physical illusion. Space and time are then, as before, reciprocally related.

It in a difficult subject upon which to speak, and will require considerable intellectual thought for you to apply or communicate to others within the present illusion. How can one reduce to a mathematics fabricated within a system of illusion a truth that is totally outside the boundaries of that system? It may be possible, however, to make certain statements regarding the relationships between space and time in any system that will help to guide an individual attempting to work within a limited system to understand the truth of the actions and the limits of that system of phenomena of time. It would, however, be much better to eliminate from the individual’s consciousness preconceived notions of the nature of both time and space, for they are not what they seem to be, as depicted by their phenomena within the boundaries of your present limitations.

Space may be thought of as linear, if time is thought of as volumetric. Or you may reverse the process, as you do within your limitation, and consider space volumetric and time linear. Either is true. And either may be perceived to be true, depending upon the limitations of your thought. It is possible to move linearly in space and volumetrically in time, all with the same movement. You can be aware of what you call the past, the present, and the future, simultaneously.

Time is not so much time as it is space, and space is not so much space as it is time. They are one and the same thing, and yet they are reciprocally related. For is not 1/1=1? For there is only one thing and we are all parts of it.

There are six dimensions, but you must speak of three. And time is a field, and radiates from each nucleus of matter in all directions and may be evaluated as T = S3/3, where T is time and S is space.

I will be happy to speak with you in the future regarding this subject. However, it is thought that it will be necessary to consider that which has been given to you before further instruction will be of great benefit. It is a very difficult bridge to travel, between a world of semantics and a place of being. But we will serve you in any way that we can.
The there are 6 dimensions comment caught my eye. Or do they mean densities? I am now going to lie down... :wink:

Love,

Vuyiswa
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Concepts of time

Post by SiteAdmin »

I've moved this post over to the "4D Science" forum, for a wider audience who would be interested in the discussion.

Vuyiswa wrote:
Now I am just curious about TIME and understanding it better. For a non-mathematician, this has to be a musical journey as in the spirit of Starlight.
It can also make you see stars, if you think about it too long... :)

Hatonn wrote:
Time, my friends, is in your mind. There is only now, and there is only here. The reason that there appears to be a reciprocal nature between space and time in your world is because your world is, shall we say, designed to produce this illusion. It is an illusion necessary for certain catalytic actions that you enjoy in your present state for the purpose of your continued spiritual growth and evolution.
This was discovered about a century ago, and is known as the study of projective or synthetic geometry. As I've said elsewhere, the term "illusion" does not mean "unreal". It simply means "incomplete."

The reciprocal relationship between space and time, as Hatonn is referring to it, is our concept of "velocity", moving some distance of space, in some amount of time, s/t. This comes from our Euclidean perspective on the world, which is characteristic of 3rd density. And it is understood by some, that this "illusion" is a picture of a picture of a picture of reality.

Hatonn wrote:
Time, however, is totally independent of space, and space is totally independent of time, for in truth they have no relationship—for in truth neither has meaning. There is one place, and there is one time. Therefore, there is no interdependent relationship between the two.
To me, this is a pointless statement and of very little use to aid in the quest of understanding. It is like saying 1=1.

Douglas Adams, in the original Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy mini-series, pointed this out when the Book defined the total population of the Universe as "zero." It goes something like this... given that the Universe is of infinite size, and therefore must contain an infinite number of planets, of which only a finite number are inhabited. Thus, the percentage of inhabited planets is "n/infinity x 100", and we all know that any finite number divided by infinity is as close to zero as anyone can get, it proves that there are no inhabited planets in the universe, regardless of how many inhabited planets there are. And thus, anyone you meet is just a figment of your imagination.

Hatonn is using similar logic.

Oxal wrote:
I am Oxal. I am with this instrument. I have been called for the purpose of speaking to you on the nature and reality of time. Time is a field, like unto your electric field, your magnetic field. But what is a field, my friends? A field is an effect. A field is in your minds. A field has different effects at different distances. So does time. As you have recently stated, time and space are dependent, one upon another. It has also been stated that they are totally independent, and have no relationship.

Both of these statements are true. It simply depends on your point of view. The people of your planet at present do not appreciate the number of dimensions that are available for one to experience the creation. All of these dimensions are made up of a single place and a single time, and, for that matter, a single dimension, which has no dimension. But it is necessary to go from where you are to where you will be. Therefore, we shall speak of time as you know it and try to lead you to that place where you will know it.

Time is a field. It is space-dependent. Space is a field and is time-dependent. For this reason you recognize a reciprocal nature. The relationship between the two is the third power [of] displacement in either. This may be recognized by a simple equation or formula. T3 divided by 3 is equal to S3. S3 divided by 3 is equal to T.
Therefore, s3/t3 = 3. One obvious problem here... if all is One, then why is all Three in this circumstance? 13 = 1, not 3. If we were to take the cube root of the equation, we find that "All is 1.4422495703074083823216383107801". Now, if this turned out to be the Phi ratio... I would have been rather impressed!

Note: Q'uo prefers to use the term "pattern" over "field" in such matters.

Oxal wrote:
There are three dimensions: therefore, the numeral “3” is used, both as a power and as a constant. Permeability of the field is dependent upon the speed of the reciprocal field. Your present constant, that which you call the velocity of light, is the basic speed of the field. The permeability of that which you know as matter is dependent upon this constant. In other words, my friends, the densities of which your world is composed, and the densities of the other planes of existence as you know them, are time-dependent. Their permeability is a function of apparent speed.
Nick Thomas refers to this permeability as "linkage points" between geometries.

Just a side note... Carla tells me that Don Elkins and Dewey Larson, inventor of the Reciprocal System, had been chatting quite a bit, and Dewey even visited Don in person.

Oxal wrote:
Condensation in dense form results from oscillations between reciprocally related space/time entities and permeability, or the basic density of this material, is a function of the apparent velocity of what you call light. There are six spaces and six times in each density. In your present form and state of awareness you recognize three. The other three you travel in in the state of sleep. In doing this. you become, quite often, mismatched with your awareness you possess in your waking state. For this reason you are able to perceive events that will occur in what is to you in the waking state the future. However, the future is an illusion, as is the past, for there is only the present. It is possible to slide, shall we say, along with respect to your awareness of time in the waking state simply by removing through the process of normal sleep the confines of the physical illusion. Space and time are then, as before, reciprocally related.
I notice that Oxal DOES NOT say 6 spatial dimensions, and 6 temporal dimensions. My own research into the polarity of densities space/time (yang) and time/space (yin) would yield similar conclusions. Each is linked to the other, therefore from a "material/physical" perspective, we see the 3 dimensions of space locally, and the 3 dimensions of time, non-locally, giving 6 variables to the equation. From a "cosmic/metaphysical" perspective, we see 3 dimensions of time locally, and 3 dimensions of space, non-locally, again giving 6 variables to the equation. This gives the appearance of 3s3t +3t3s = 6s + 6t "spaces and times."

Oxal wrote:
Space may be thought of as linear, if time is thought of as volumetric. Or you may reverse the process, as you do within your limitation, and consider space volumetric and time linear. Either is true.
Same premise in RS2 -- Oxal is pointing out the linear/polar geometric difference between space and time.

Oxal wrote:
And either may be perceived to be true, depending upon the limitations of your thought.
Polar geometry is just one picture-of-a-picture removed from Euclidean geometry, so it is still an "illusion".

Oxal wrote:
It is possible to move linearly in space and volumetrically in time, all with the same movement. You can be aware of what you call the past, the present, and the future, simultaneously.
This goes back to Hermetics, and the "river of time" flowing thru a temporal landscape. The landscape is the "volume of time", and the river is the "linear time", since it only flows along a path in the landscape.

Oxal wrote:
Time is not so much time as it is space, and space is not so much space as it is time. They are one and the same thing, and yet they are reciprocally related. For is not 1/1=1? For there is only one thing and we are all parts of it.
Larson tries to make this point, over and over... that space and time are simply labels or aspects of motion, and have no inherent meaning in themselves.

Oxal wrote:
There are six dimensions, but you must speak of three. And time is a field, and radiates from each nucleus of matter in all directions and may be evaluated as T = S3/3, where T is time and S is space.
He has changed the equation! 3t = s3 ? Looks more like a logarithmic relationship, which would be consistent with Larson's inter-atomic distance equations.

vuyiswa wrote:
The there are 6 dimensions comment caught my eye. Or do they mean densities? I am now going to lie down...
Notice he said "6 dimensions", not 12, as could be incorrectly inferred from above. 3 dimensions of space, and 3 of time. Exactly what Larson proposed in the Reciprocal System (published in 1955).
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