Steiner's view of the constitution of man

Discussion concerning other (non-RS) systems of theory and the insights obtained from them, as applied to the developing RS2 theory.
Post Reply
danmc
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:31 am

Steiner's view of the constitution of man

Post by danmc »

Since RS2 uses projective geometry to help in our understanding of things, and since Steiner's views have a lot to do with PG as well, I thought I'd post this diagram I made some time back that attempted to show what Steiner has to say about the nature of the soul in relation to the body and Spirit. The text in the diagram is more or less straight from his book Theosophy. The conception is interesting as it shows how matter, life, and sensation (the physical), work "upwards", while Spirit works "downward", both meeting in a nexus we call the soul. The soul, then, is the result of two evolutions, a material one and a spiritual one. These two evolutions meet and produce a "third", so to speak.

Dan
Attachments
whole_man5AI.gif
whole_man5AI.gif (96.57 KiB) Viewed 12422 times
User avatar
bperet
Posts: 1501
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:43 am
Location: 7.5.3.84.70.24.606
Contact:

Soul and Mind

Post by bperet »

I notice the diagram is similar to the Ra interpretation of mind/body/spirit, where "mind" is the term used for "soul" in the diagram. If this analogy hold true, then we are looking at two reciprocal aspects here -- the Threefold Spirit and the Threefold Body being both "yang" concepts (3rd and 1st density, respectively), both of which exist in reciprocal relation to the "mind/soul", conveniently represented as a round "yin" symbol of 2nd density.

Since BOTH the intuitive and sensation valuing systems are attached to the yang aspects, we would view the mind as "counterspace" -- a polar system where "infinity" is at the CENTER, not the periphery. Rather curious place to put the "All-Seeing 'I'".

The body/soul relation would make up the space/time (material) and time/space (cosmic) aspects of the physical universe. I attach "soul" to cosmic (as I do "mind" in the Law of One) because of its long association with the feminine aspect of the anima mundi -- the world soul. The interesting bit is the Spirit exists outside "space", but not outside "time", still being attached to the soul aspect. I could see this relationship based on Steiner's 3-world model, but have to wonder how it exactly fits in the scheme of things -- does it really connect, or is it only visible when viewed thru the soul?
Every dogma has its day...
Alluvion
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:37 am

Steiner's view of the constitution of man

Post by Alluvion »

I consider this diagram as a three dimensional triangle, with the vertex's being the three fold spirit, body and soul(mind). Thus the vesica is a 2 dimensional image of a three dimensonal vortex with two foci - and so there really is a 'space' contained between all three-fold aspects of self, how one enters into that space determines the nature of perspection: cosmic - from the spirit, material, from the body, organizational/transitional, from the mind (mind being that which creates and organizes, elevating the body towards the spiritual by configuring and manifesting the material as a vehicle for the spirit: the mind interfaces the mortal(transitory) with the immortal(essential or endless).

Thus the two inner spheres are really an incomplete triad which I might reconsider as (and this is from don miguel ruiz) : awareness, manifestation, intent (mental, physical, spiritual). But thats just to get the ball rolling.

Perhaps the direction of 'entering' also relates to the threshold one passes - from center(space) towards vertex (threefold facet) is a time/space perspective, where as entering 'to the center' from a vertex is a space/time perspective. ? maybe? overly complicated?

_A
danmc
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:31 am

Re: Soul and Mind

Post by danmc »

bperet wrote:
I notice the diagram is similar to the Ra interpretation of mind/body/spirit, where "mind" is the term used for "soul" in the diagram. If this analogy hold true, then we are looking at two reciprocal aspects here -- the Threefold Spirit and the Threefold Body being both "yang" concepts (3rd and 1st density, respectively), both of which exist in reciprocal relation to the "mind/soul", conveniently represented as a round "yin" symbol of 2nd density.
I'm not versed in the RA material enough to be all that conversant, but this seems like a good analogy to me. Imagine drawing a horizontal line through the vertical center of the diagram (across the middle of the "I"). Everything below the line is a projection of everything above the line. Mind/Soul, Steiner's thinking ego, is the "lens" that focuses the projection, something like the focusing lens of a camera which projects the scene (light) coming through the lens onto the film at the back of the camera. In fact, Mind is placed by Steiner squarely at this point. Mind is the center of the Soul, and so the two terms are practically interchangeable. In this regard, after we draw the line, we can see that Mind has two "halves", just as the physical has two "halves", which is a principle Steiner has spoken to.

bperet wrote:
but have to wonder how it exactly fits in the scheme of things -- does it really connect, or is it only visible when viewed thru the soul?
Not clear here on what you mean by "it". From the context of what precedes it, I'm assuming you mean the spirit aspect. For Steiner, the Divine Spirit aspect, the "highest" aspect, is connected with the material body, the Life Spirit aspect with the Life Body, and the Human Spirit with the Soul Body.

From what I understand, or interpreted, to put it into space/time-time/space terms, is that the Material Body makes up the space/time aspect and the Life Body the time/space aspects, material and cosmic respectively. This is the realm of the physical world. Thus, any thing in the diagram from the Soul Body on up is metaphysical -- Soul and Spirit would be independent of Space and Time. I've noticed you've always had a wider application of these terms.
danmc
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:31 am

Steiner's view of the constitution of man

Post by danmc »

WarmSylph wrote:
how one enters into that space determines the nature of perspection: cosmic - from the spirit, material, from the body, organizational/transitional, from the mind (mind being that which creates and organizes, elevating the body towards the spiritual by configuring and manifesting the material as a vehicle for the spirit: the mind interfaces the mortal(transitory) with the immortal(essential or endless).
I would certainly agree with most of this, especially as regards the mind/soul being the interface between the mortal and immortal, itself being relatively immortal. It would be interesting to start a thread on perception, since even our "puny" seeming perception is so much wider than we often give it credit for. So much of the Mind's creating/organizing practices get filtered based on the beliefs the personality holds. Dream perceptions attest to the fact that perception in general does not require just the senses for its data. Of course, in this day and age, and with Science having to do simply and only with physical data, this is what many believe and so what they get.

WarmSylph wrote:
Thus the two inner spheres are really an incomplete triad which I might reconsider as (and this is from don miguel ruiz) : awareness, manifestation, intent (mental, physical, spiritual). But thats just to get the ball rolling.
Well, from the point of view of the diagram (Steiner), the triad, the material/mental/spiritual is itself incomplete. Is completion even a valid concept? I wonder if it's more of a constant "becoming", rather than a linear, incomplete->complete route (read: imperfect->perfect). The two inner spheres, the vesica in the diagram, represent the dual aspects of mind, the intuition side being abstract thinking, the sensation side being concrete thinking. Something like having the abstract concept of chair, and the concrete concept of a particular type of chair, a stool, for example.

It's interesting, too, as concerns the triad, that very major religion has a trinity at its head. The idea of the triad is so pervasive, finds itself in so many spiritual teachings, that it's practically universal. The One makes a shadow of itself and polarity arises. The polarity is balanced by the "third", and so all threes are ones, and all ones are threes. In the diagram, the soul is the balancing "third", between Spirit and Matter.
Alluvion
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:37 am

Steiner's view of the constitution of man

Post by Alluvion »

HI dan,

I'd agree this diagram is helpful for considering the soul or mind as the 'third' balancing between Spirit and Matter.

As for dyad/triad - I beleive the self is organized into three primary conditions: mind, body, spirit - but that when this set is viewed from any one perspective, like mind for instance, the connection between spirit and matter becomes central to the sight. Consider a triangle in space - when 'occupying' a vertex, one views out between two 'poles'. When occupying a segment one views 'in' along two paths towards a singular condition.

The triangle is such an essential diagram because its points or poles directly equals its connections - ie, its ying = its yang.

_A
User avatar
bperet
Posts: 1501
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:43 am
Location: 7.5.3.84.70.24.606
Contact:

The Third Triangle

Post by bperet »

I just noticed in Dan's diagram there is a third triangle -- somewhat hidden as the words "Sentient Soul - Intellectual Soul - Conscious Soul". That seems to complete a 3rd density viewpoint of three yang triangles and three yin circles; the perfect compliment of space/time and time/space. I am wondering if there was a way to express this more graphically, or how this could be brought in to a "three dimensional view"...
Every dogma has its day...
danmc
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:31 am

Re: The Third Triangle

Post by danmc »

bperet wrote:
I am wondering if there was a way to express this more graphically, or how this could be brought in to a "three dimensional view"...
I'm sure it could. The challenge in doing these "philosophical diagrams", as I've taken to calling them for lack of a better phrase, is simply trying to fit all the information into the space and retain the connection of that information with the geometrical constructs wherein an ashetic remains: it's still nice to look at. In other words, there is simply a utlitarian component involved. Some diargams are relatively easy, and some disintegrate in the process. Most of the time it's a case of finding the overall construct. If I recall with this one (done a number of years ago), it was a "nine" thing that precipitated it. I liked the idea of I/eye, self creation/perception, but it kind of overwhelms the center part. Maybe that's why it is only just now apparent. The veisca bothered me then, and it still does now. Seems out of place, thought it works to a certain degree.
Post Reply